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Quote: from neodymie at 9:30 pm on Aug. 14, 2008

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Quote: from envyeyz709 at 12:19 pm on July 17, 2008

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Quote: from motorhead at 2:08 pm on July 17, 2008

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Quote: from whoohooitsjes x3 at 3:00 pm on July 17, 2008

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yes, but those cells divide and become a baby. if you remove them, it's murder. But, that's just my view on the subject. It doesn't mean I'm right, and it doesn't mean that I'm wrong.

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  No, they're supposed to divide and become a baby. It's not garunteed. At that point, it's still a free-floating ball of cells and could be swept out of the uterus during the menstrual cycle.

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  i think that men shouldn't fight for pro-choice, because you genuinely can't understand what it means to have a life growing inside of you. and for that matter, if a woman has never been pregnant or had an abortion, i don't think she should either. i think you should go through it before you advise others to do the same, as with anything else.

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 That's another thing that really pisses me off about this a whole argument in general. Why is it solely the woman's choice? There was obviously a man involved somewhere.

 I know if I got a woman pregnant I would be pissed to find out she had an abortion. It would be just as much my child as hers.

 
 And absolutely. Just because something doesn't look like you doesn't mean it isn't the same.

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Do you eat meat?

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Uhh, yeah...

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" I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel,
but I am, so that's how it comes out. " - Bill Hicks

The same principle applies. If you are going to fight for the rights of a biotic collection of cells then you should fight for the right for ALL life and not eat meat. Or do you only care about those collections of cells that have the opportunity to turn into humans at some point.

A bit hypocritical, no?

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov

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Well, just because something doesn't look like you doesn't mean it isn't the same.

The same principle applies. If you are going to fight for the rights of a biotic collection of cells then you should fight for the right for ALL life and not eat meat. Or do you only care about those collections of cells that have the opportunity to turn into humans at some point.  

A bit hypocritical, no?

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Uhm, not really. I don't eat human and I've yet to see a cow or a pig that looks anything like me...

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" I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel,
but I am, so that's how it comes out. " - Bill Hicks

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Quote: from Event Horizon at 1:53 pm on Aug. 15, 2008

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Well, just because something doesn't look like you doesn't mean it isn't the same.  

 The same principle applies. If you are going to fight for the rights of a biotic collection of cells then you should fight for the right for ALL life and not eat meat. Or do you only care about those collections of cells that have the opportunity to turn into humans at some point.  

 A bit hypocritical, no?

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Uhm, not really. I don't eat human and I've yet to see a cow or a pig that looks anything like me...

 

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So it's ok to slaughter thousands of cattle a day, but it isn't ok to remove a growing sack of cells from a woman's womb?

You've got a strange sense of morals there...

I mean, by that logic, we should be able to do all sorts of cruel and unusual things to animals with no consequence, legal OR moral. I should be able to take a dog that I find on the street and gut it on the side-walk, then hang the carcass in a dog-pound right? As long as it doesn't have the potential to become a human, and as long as I leave that little globule of cells alone.

Do you honestly believe what you are saying?

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov

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I'd also like to add that if abortion is murder, then miscarriages should be considered manslaughter, since it is accidental/unmeditated murder.

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Quote: from Event Horizon at 4:04 pm on Aug. 15, 2008

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I'd also like to add that if abortion is murder, then miscarriages should be considered manslaughter, since it is accidental/unmeditated murder.

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A miscarriage wasn't your choice, it just happened, you didn't choose it.

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So does taking your eyes off the road for an instant and hitting a person and killing them. That is called vehicular manslaughter, and is punishable by law. It may not be as strict as murder, for obvious reasons, but it is a law none-the-less.
Besides, respond to the ACTUAL content of my points.

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov

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Quote: from neodymie at 6:14 pm on Aug. 15, 2008

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Quote: from Event Horizon at 1:53 pm on Aug. 15, 2008

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Well, just because something doesn't look like you doesn't mean it isn't the same.  

  The same principle applies. If you are going to fight for the rights of a biotic collection of cells then you should fight for the right for ALL life and not eat meat. Or do you only care about those collections of cells that have the opportunity to turn into humans at some point.    

  A bit hypocritical, no?

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 Uhm, not really. I don't eat human and I've yet to see a cow or a pig that looks anything like me...  

   
 

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So it's ok to slaughter thousands of cattle a day, but it isn't ok to remove a growing sack of cells from a woman's womb?

You've got a strange sense of morals there...

I mean, by that logic, we should be able to do all sorts of cruel and unusual things to animals with no consequence, legal OR moral. I should be able to take a dog that I find on the street and gut it on the side-walk, then hang the carcass in a dog-pound right? As long as it doesn't have the potential to become a human, and as long as I leave that little globule of cells alone.

Do you honestly believe what you are saying?

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You really think that slaughtering cattle and mutilating a dog in the street are the same thing?

Now, humans are the dominant species on this planet. IMO it's here for us to use. Now I'm all for taking care of our planet and the other animals on it. However I feel that we come first. Slaughtering cattle for food. That's fine. We need it. We use it. It's justified. Mutilating a dog in the street. Is that justified? No, Do we gain anything from that? No. That's why it's wrong. That's why it's illegal.

Now, what do we gain from killing an unborn baby? Nothing. In most cases it's just because people fucked up and don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

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" I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel,
but I am, so that's how it comes out. " - Bill Hicks

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I'd also like to add that if abortion is murder, then miscarriages should be considered manslaughter, since it is accidental/unmeditated murder.

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So it's ok to slaughter thousands of cattle a day, but it isn't ok to remove a growing sack of cells from a woman's womb?

You've got a strange sense of morals there...

I mean, by that logic, we should be able to do all sorts of cruel and unusual things to animals with no consequence, legal OR moral. I should be able to take a dog that I find on the street and gut it on the side-walk, then hang the carcass in a dog-pound right? As long as it doesn't have the potential to become a human, and as long as I leave that little globule of cells alone.

Do you honestly believe what you are saying?

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Quote: from Event Horizon at 8:23 pm on Aug. 15, 2008

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So it's ok to slaughter thousands of cattle a day, but it isn't ok to remove a growing sack of cells from a woman's womb?  

 You've got a strange sense of morals there...  

 I mean, by that logic, we should be able to do all sorts of cruel and unusual things to animals with no consequence, legal OR moral. I should be able to take a dog that I find on the street and gut it on the side-walk, then hang the carcass in a dog-pound right? As long as it doesn't have the potential to become a human, and as long as I leave that little globule of cells alone.  

 Do you honestly believe what you are saying?

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Is taking things to extremes the way you normally make an argument?

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It depends, normally not, but when someone says that a fetus in the first trimester is the same thing as a child, I feel the need to show them just how ridiculous they sound.

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov

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Quote: from Forever Angel at 12:33 pm on Aug. 16, 2008

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Quote: from Event Horizon at 8:23 pm on Aug. 15, 2008

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So it's ok to slaughter thousands of cattle a day, but it isn't ok to remove a growing sack of cells from a woman's womb?  

  You've got a strange sense of morals there...  

  I mean, by that logic, we should be able to do all sorts of cruel and unusual things to animals with no consequence, legal OR moral. I should be able to take a dog that I find on the street and gut it on the side-walk, then hang the carcass in a dog-pound right? As long as it doesn't have the potential to become a human, and as long as I leave that little globule of cells alone.  

  Do you honestly believe what you are saying?

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Is taking things to extremes the way you normally make an argument?

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It depends, normally not, but when someone says that a fetus in the first trimester is the same thing as a child, I feel the need to show them just how ridiculous they sound.

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You did a better job of making yourself sound ridiculous...

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" I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel,
but I am, so that's how it comes out. " - Bill Hicks

Tell me HOW you justify your claim that a first trimester fetus is a living, independent organism that is capable of being killed.  
Seriously, I would like to know HOW you can justify such ridiculous claims.

Post edited at 5:09 pm on Aug. 16, 2008 by Event Horizon

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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful.It's the transition
that's troublesome.   --Isaac Asimov