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I'm wondering about the nutrition content in most meats sold today.  Do food animals, farmed in the modern way, have the nutritional content that a wolf might experience after hunting down fresh, natural prey?  I'm betting those farmed animals aren't fed nutritionally complete meals. Not that the kibble is any better for dogs.  :(

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That's a personal thing, really. A lot of people worry about that, but most dogs are fed from what you can buy at the butcher or grocery store and have the same results. The kibble is, as you said, not any better. Worse, really.

I know a few people who rely on their own hunting to feed their dogs, but they have the time and energy for that, and a place to put  the dead bodies of deer, bears, rabbits, etc, or they use their own farm animals (this is what my aunt does).
It'd probably be far too expensive to go into feeding organic meat.

As far as what is wrong with salmon, it's the potential of liver fluke. It's like delivering alcohol directly to their liver, can completely destroy it in a short amount of time. Cooked, though, is fine. There's a short list of fish that cannot be fed, but most people just use fish oil, that I know of.

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Bring me my monocle. I want to look rich.

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what's wrong with salmon?

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naw. imma eat my meat. my dog can have his kibbles an bits.

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Well that's lovely. And it kills him slowly. Good luck.

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Bring me my monocle. I want to look rich.

Also if you bought this up to a vet do you think they would shoot the idea down?

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"A wise girl kisses but doesn't love,
listens but doesn't believe,
and leaves before she is left"
-Marilyn Monroe

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So even if your dog has been on regular dog food for lets about 5 years or so, they can switch diets with no problems?

Also if you bought this up to a vet do you think they would shoot the idea down?

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There's often a transitional period. Some dogs do fine being switched cold turkey, but they are the ones with the best immune systems and no digestive issues.
Many dogs need a gradual switch, but never feed kibble and raw at the same time. They digest at different rates and can back up the dog.

As far as the vet, if they disagree, or try to keep selling you their pet food, either ignore it, or find a new one. Many claims that vets have made have been shot down, most being the parasite myths. They have little to say about the breeders that have been eating raw for 50+ years and have dogs living upwards of 20 years old, from what I have seen. But even they fully agree that most commercial diets cause periodontal disease and digestive problems.

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Bring me my monocle. I want to look rich.

As far as would i put a new pet dog on a raw meat diet, i still think no. I just couldn't imagine giving a domesticated animal portions of raw meat. You make some very good points about it being good for them and what have you but i just don't see it.

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Week in and week out,
Your lucky charms will always let you down,
Maybe next week we'll see,
Maybe.

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I found the whole thing a little hard to read to be honest. Be that because I'm half asleep or whatever. But i feel inclined to disagree. Personally i would not switch my dogs diet to a whole raw meat diet. Thats purely because he's 13 years old, his diet consists of tinned dog food and any leftovers of meat we have and he's been ill on one occasion i can remember. I just would not switch his diet now because it hasn't done him any harm.

As far as would i put a new pet dog on a raw meat diet, i still think no. I just couldn't imagine giving a domesticated animal portions of raw meat. You make some very good points about it being good for them and what have you but i just don't see it.

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What exactly about it do you not like? IT is the diet they are designed for. Tinned dog foods (wet) ruin teeth and gums quicker than kibbles.
And like I said, most of the problems you notice, you brush off as being 'normal', when they are not.

As I said, many dogs do 'fine' on commercial dog food, but they could be ten times better. Many kibble feeders figure that out after switching.

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Bring me my monocle. I want to look rich.

Also, a raw-meat diet is not the best choice for every dog and the decision to go raw should be made on a case by case basis, or done when the dog is a pup.  

Though they wont splinter or break like cooked bones, even uncooked bones can be harmful for dogs, .  Rather than possibly tear your dogs GI apart, just dont give the bones.

Last thing- vets dont just take short nutrition classes given by a commercial food rep.  They do have take nutrition to complete a vet med degree.  Obviously I dont know what they are being taught in the college courses, but the way you put it makes it sound as if vets just know nothing about nutrition, nor are ever educated about the subject, but they are as part of their veterinary course work.

Post edited at 8:06 pm on Nov. 15, 2007 by breakapart

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I'm curious... whats your source saying that dogs are carnivores?  The reason I ask is that my Clinical Medicine book clearly states that they are omnivores.    

Also, a raw-meat diet is not the best choice for every dog and the decision to go raw should be made on a case by case basis, or done when the dog is a pup.    

Though they wont splinter or break like cooked bones, even uncooked bones can be harmful for dogs, .  Rather than possibly tear your dogs GI apart, just dont give the bones.  

Last thing- vets dont just take short nutrition classes given by a commercial food rep.  They do have take nutrition to complete a vet med degree.  Obviously I dont know what they are being taught in the college courses, but the way you put it makes it sound as if vets just know nothing about nutrition, nor are ever educated about the subject, but they are as part of their veterinary course work.

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There is little debate about whether are not dogs are carnivores. I've never seen anyone with any background in them call them omnivores, even those who feed veggies and fruits. They just seem to like them. Domestic dogs being true omnivores remains to be proven, but their dental and digestive make-up says otherwise. Cats on the other hand, no question, they are obligate carnivores.

As far as bones, as I said, large bones appropriate for your dogs size. I don't know anyone who's had problems with bones, because they feed them properly. They also know which bones to feed, and it's not that hard to learn. I've never had a dog choke on a bone, but I have had several get rawhide and small toys lodged in their throat (I just pulled a rawhide slab from the Pomeranian's throat two nights ago, actually).

The diet doesn't need to be started from puppyhood usually, I've only known of a handful of dogs that didn't take to the diet, and that was because they were switched too quickly, they had already had underlying issues that the commercial diet had caused.

As far as the vet class, by short, I mean their nutrition classes are nowhere near comparable to someone who is specializing in it. When a vet tells me my dog can digest corn meal perfectly fine (and most of them have) I can pretty much tell from there that Hill's told them to say that. The vets I know and talked to about becoming a veterinarian even fully answe3red my question when I asked about those classes, and not one said they weren't taught by a representative from a pet food company. How much could they possibly know? A class in nutrition is worthless if you're getting it from a company who admits defeat.

ETA: If people are still worried about bones, they can be ground. Many people use grinders to help save space in their freezers for this diet, and bones are no exception, but will take a little more work.

Post edited at 5:43 am on Nov. 16, 2007 by The Raven

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Bring me my monocle. I want to look rich.